Israel Kills Scores of Hamas Terrorists In Gaza In Big Air Strike
Published: December 27th, 2008
Israel has finally decided to do something to stop the constant barrage of rockets and mortar shells coming in from the Gaza strip. Read about the buildup to today’s events here.
Expect to see lots of photos of wounded Palestinian children in news reports. Funny how they never show Israeli civilians killed by the unending Hamas bombardment.
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- Israel’s Goals for the Ground Operation in Gaza From a statement released Saturday night by Israel’s foreign ministry: “The objective of this stage is to destroy the terrorist infrastructure of the Hamas in...
- It’s All-out War with Hamas, Says Barak. Hopefully, He Means It Defense Minister Ehud Barak speaking to the Israeli parliament today: “We have stretched our hand in peace many times to the Palestinian people. We have...
- Gaza Update: Day 4 10 dead in Gaza strikes after 3 Israelis killed in South (with video): On Monday, three Israelis were killed in Ashkelon, Ashdod and Nahal Oz when...
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December 27th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
To bomb civil population is a terrorism act.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Something tells me, Angel, that you are not talking about Hamas terrorists bombing the civilian population of southern Israel daily with rockets and mortars.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
An eye for an eye?
Why do we keep on blaming each other? No civilian pupulation should ever be targeted. No matter what country you’re from.
Israel is one of the most terrorizing countries in the world and has evoked a lot a extremism in the region. And whenever Israel does something terrible it isn’t as much as news worthy as when Palestinians do it.
Just let the Palestinian land go. After WOII the jews are the aggressors, that seems very ironic but true. Before the state of Israel muslims, jews and christians used to live peacefully with each other and baby sit each other kids.
This world is just going to get worse and worse.
The difference between Palestinian groups like Hamas en the Israeli government is that Palestinians are openly aggressive and the Israeli government hides behind burocraty and the US veto rights.
grs, from the Netherlands
December 27th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
It’s truly sickening to see the glee that is expressed by the writer of this blog at the deaths of over 200 human beings (no more or no less human than anyone else). Do you truly believe a policeman in Gaza who is lucky to be making one or two hundred dollars a month deserves to die in Israeli attacks simply because he works for the democratically elected government of the territory.. not to mention the tens of women and children who are simply trying to survive in some of the worst conditions anywhere on earth (top 10 in both unemployment levels and population density of anywhere on earth) and are blown up by Israeli attacks. Even if these civilians are killed by accident, it makes no difference to their families and loved ones. how would you feel if I put an apple on top of your relative’s head and tried to shoot it with a rifle and ended up killing them? would you forgive me and find no fault in my actions because it was an ‘accident’. Israel is simply using these air strikes as a political stunt to show that government is just as tough as the hawks they are running against in the upcoming election. Its pathetic and disgusting behavior.
December 27th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Israel has made attempts at peace, by forcing its people to leave their lives and homes to give these lands to the Palestinians. In return, they have received non-stop rocket and mortar fire on civillian populations.
Gaza is not just a civillian population. Gaza is a breeding ground for Hammas terrorism. Hammas has an army, support from Iran, increasingly sophisticated weapons, and no fear of death. To say that Israel is launching attacks against civillian populations is a bit of an exaggeration. Gaza is in the hands of Hammas, and the terrorists perpetrating these acts have no qualms about putting their wives and children in the line of fire in order to achieve their point.
When Hammas terrorists attack Israel, it is discussed as a “terrorist group” attacking a soveriegn nation, but when Israel fights back, it is attacking a “civillian popilation?”
The time for tip-toeing through the tullips is over. Hammas is as much a government of their territory as it is a terrorist group. If they are outraged at “Israeli aggression,” perhaps they would have reconsidered firing hundereds of rockets and mortars during the Egypt-brokered cease-fire. No Arab nations have denounced Hammas actions in this crisis, and until the Palestinian people turn against Hammas and make an effort for non-violent means of peace, and end to the conflict is not in site.
December 27th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
“No civilian pupulation should ever be targeted.”
Which of the two actually TARGETS the civilian population – Israel or Hamas? The terrorists even target their own civilian population by shooting their rockets from civilian houses. When Israel hits back at these launch sites and civilians suffer, it’s a PR win for the terrorists, which is why they do it. I’m sure you’ll disagree, though.
December 27th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Israel didn’t target civilian population. They targeted and hit Hamas Militant sites. They killed Hamas Militants. Civilians tragically died in the attack as well but they were a minority. Over 140 of the dead were in uniform according to Gaza’s own hospital. This was a legal attack against a military target, collateral damage is legal according to international law as long as it is small in proportion. Israeli did not strike civilian targets those of you who are saying otherwise are lying or didn’t read up.
December 27th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
“Israel has finally decided to do something to stop the constant barrage of rockets and mortar shells coming in from the Gaza strip”
—…. I would tend to see it as: “AS USUAL, Israel decides to make a show of its military power, and bomb the palestinians in a 1000 times exagerated reaction”, not caring who (or what, as it seems palestininans in the eyes of “superior race” israelis are objects rather than humans) is damaged on its way… Not like it didnt start doing this since kind of its 1948 invasion of Palestine dethroning the palestinians from their lands and houses…
“Expect to see lots of photos of wounded Palestinian children in news reports. Funny how they never show Israeli civilians killed by the unending Hamas bombardment.”
— … As if the killing of 210 civilians is a common daily thing happening in Israel and is not made the fuss about??? There is a bigger fuss in the media when 1 israeli dies than 10 palestinians together !! Just like in the July 2006 Lebanon war, the shooting was showing equally both the Israeli and Lebanese damage sides, although it is obvious where the heavier part of the damage was made… 1000 or so casualties vs 50…
Somehow one should start seeing things from the palestinian perspective and start giving these poor people some credit… or minimal human living rights… Shame on the western governments which cowardly sit and watch this conflict with minimal interference… After all, they were after the creation of the state of israel and never helped setting it up in the right way… Instead, since its creation, there has only been refugees, atrocities and more wars in the region…….
December 27th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Justice should reign,
You do know that the law recognizes that there is a difference between a civilian and a militant.
While in a state of war you can bomb militants all you want, it’s perfectly legal.
December 27th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
All should understand that Israel targeted Hamas troops that are hiding among the civilians (again only Hamas!).While Hamas target is and was everyone who lieves in Israel including the innocent civilians. Shooting rockets to civilians in Israel towns for a long period of time should be ceased.
I’m christian and lieve in the north of Israel. I fealt this also during the Lebanon war 2 while Hisballa’s target was Israel towns in north.
Suleiman, something is happening with muslims in the whole world (Afganistan, Pakistan, Middle east, last attacks in India, Caucasus, Europe, everywhere). I’m not blaming all the muslims, but the terrorist… which are usually muslims.
Hope that some day all the nations will lieve in Peace.
December 27th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Its the Arab nations who evoke extremism towards Israel by refusing to recognize Israel. Israel is trying only to maintain its strategic defensive status.
Israel has made several dangerous (to itself) attempts for peace for the Palestinian all over the years, some who haven’t even been reported publicly over the world today. Still, a large part of the Palestinian population refuses to accept these attempts, and even more – refuse to accept Israel as a nation.
These “letting go of Palestinian land” will directly endanger Israeli population. It puts the core of Israeli population much closer to aggressive and offensive Palestinian terrorists groups who act directly from inside innocent Palestinian population. Israel cannot guarantee that these terrorist groups won’t use their “new land” given to them in some sort of agreement or treaty for hostile action against Israel.
I find it amusing that many Europeans think that it is so surprising that a nation can’t make peace with another one. You guys just don’t understand the attitude the Palestinian population has towards Israel. Children are educated from birth towards hatred and killing (unlike in Israel). I would like to see the Netherlands bombed for 8 years from a neighboring nation and doing nothing about it.
Those 200 reported deaths, injuries and such – What they don’t detail in the media is that 100% of these deaths were Hammas terrorists, attending an assembly for showing their power and hatred towards democracy and finding a solution for both sides.
This so-called hard-working policeman you talked about earlier isn’t so innocent. Mainly because he himself directly and actively supports firing of rockets towards Israeli civilian population.
Israel army always tries to avoid putting innocent population in the line of fire, even calling off attacks which would directly endanger Israeli population. If you ever read the small notebook with IDF values every Israeli soldier receives upon enlistment you could see it for yourself. They are to be respected and maintained with top priority and are memorized by each soldier :
“Human Life:
The IDF serviceman will, above all, preserve human life, in the recognition of its supreme value and will place himself or others at risk solely to the extent required to carry out his mission.
The sanctity of life in the eyes of the IDF servicemen will find expression in all of their actions, in deliberate and meticulous planning, in safe and intelligent training and in proper execution of their mission. In evaluating the risk to self and others, they will use the appropriate standards and will exercise constant care to limit injury to life to the extent required to accomplish the mission.
Purity of Arms:
The IDF serviceman will use force of arms only for the purpose of subduing the enemy to the necessary extent and will limit his use of force so as to prevent unnecessary harm to human life and limb, dignity and property.
The IDF servicemen’s purity of arms is their self-control in use of armed force. They will use their arms only for the purpose of achieving their mission, without inflicting unnecessary injury to human life or limb; dignity or property, of both soldiers and civilians, with special consideration for the defenseless, whether in wartime, or during routine security operations, or in the absence of combat, or times of peace.
Responsibility:
The IDF serviceman will see himself as an active participant in the defense of his country and its citizens. He will carry out his duties decisively, resolutely and with vigor, within the limits of his authority.
The responsibility of IDF servicemen is their active partnership and their readiness to use their utmost abilities in the defense of the State, its sovereignty, and the lives and safety of its citizens, within the framework of authority granted them by the IDF. They will carry out their duties fully, diligently, and with determination, commitment and initiative, in clear awareness that they are answerable for any consequences.”
Personally, I haven’t seen anything similar to this on the Palestinian side. Hammas is firing rockets from tall buildings with innocent civilians inside. The Hammas use this course of action in order to directly protect themselves using the Palestinian civilians as a human shield. This is just the opposite from how the Israeli side is behaving.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Did someone ever heared the story from the other side (Hamas)? I don’t think so. All of ur info is from the media which are controlled by the first side. If I’m wrong, then show me the news coverage of the American media from inside (Hamas).
Who would hear u if u r shouting inside a concert?
December 27th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
justice should reign:
I’m sorry that I’m exist – If Israel wouldn’t created, there were absolutely no wars, refugees and more in the region, right?
WRONG! It’s not Israel’s problem anymore – it’s your problem too. We are not face against the Palestinian people, honestly, I really care for them, but first of all I care for my people. The problem is the terrorism and the Islamic fundamentalism – a problem that you’re avoid and always cover your eyes when you see it. We are under attack for EIGHT YEARS and I didn’t hear any government in the world that admonish the Hamas terrorism. What other country would restrain for 8 years of Qassam missiles attacks? NO ONE! you can’t blame us for being amoral – WE ARE MORE MORAL then you think we are. The Israeli government dismantle the settlements in Gaza strip – there is no reason to attack now, so why are they keep doing it? what they want form us? I know what, exactly what you said before – to erase Israel from the history, because after that there won’t be any wars, refugees and atrocities in the region… yeah, right.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Mike,
people read more than just CNN, MSNBC, and Fox. We also read the BBC, The Economist, Al Jeezers, and i’ve personally read hundreds of opinion articles from Arab countries. Besides, I guarantee you that Western Media is more liberal than Arab media.
Also one of the reasons it is so hard to get information from news sources in those Arab countries is b/c they have to freedom of the press…you know that.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
The root poblem is that that country should never have existed. Not in the way it came to exist. With many villages where destroyed and the genocide of the people.
Now we cannot do anything about the past but now we should focuse on the future. And this can only be solved by diplomacy. Because without this problem ever solved, world peace or just a better world can never come.
Both Israel and Hamas have to stop their negative attituted towards each other for the sake of their people and the rest of the world. And the US has to stop supporting Israel for every step they take, because that especially doesn’t help the attitude of the other side.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
So they had need to kill about 100 – 200 people because “No injuries were reported”. This is the behaviour of “the chosen people”, descendants of those who were victims of the holocaust and other pogroms, related to some of the best artists and scientist and bankers all over the world, inhabitants of a beautiful country, where you don’t know if you survive a simple bus ride or a coffee break.
Israel, with its little more than six million inhabitants, keeps the world in suspense since its area was donated to them. But instead of being happy to have – after millenia – their own resort, they are punishing themselves, the Palestinians and everyone who hears about those cruelties, for what ever ?
For the past ? For simple being ?
Can anyone outside Israel imagine what it means to raise in a country which is in a permanent war-like state ?
I for myself, living in (now) peaceful Europe, cannot really. But what I can imagine is, it would make me flee my home, simply to protect my mental health, facing my government and my neighbours giving sanction to permanent murder and violence, even if I admit, that there are aggressive things are coming from outside.
So, please, you six-and-more millions, who are more intelligent, more creative and richer than me, finally make use of your abilities and strength and money, and bring all that suffering you are causing to yourself and your so-called enemies to a wise and civilized end – and that doesn’t mean to extinguish the others, you understand me.
Otherwise we all have to conclude that you learned, with time, being threatened is a useful part of your existence, to gain whatever you think that’s worth it.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Suleiman:
“The root poblem is that that country should never have existed.”
Thank you… Read my comment for “justice should reign” (comment no. 13).
What right do you have to say that I can not be exist here, in this piece of land? who told you that? I can’t believe that you actually said it.
I agree in what you said about the future… but you forgot one little thing: we NEED that the Palestinian people will understand and agree with our existence, because, as you said, without this problem ever solved.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Wow, i didn’t know we had so many haters here..
Suleiman,
the British Mandate Area was ordered to be partitioned by the UN. There were both Jews and Arabs already in the land. No land was stolen from the Palestinians but once hostilities began-they began when Arabs started massacring Jews-a series of forced relocations occurred on both sides. You do know that far more Jews lost their home in 1948 than Palestinians don’t you? It is an empirical fact.
Knossos,
Just because only one Jew died in the week long rocket attacks by Hamas doesn’t mean that it isn’t a crime…if you walk out side your house and randomly fire a gun around even if you don’t hit anybody your still going to be arrested. Also don’t forget that Israeli’s have that same fear to, they never know if the bus their riding on will blow up b/c a suicide bomber might be on or if their coffee shop will explode. The Israeli’s would like nothing more than to be happy but those pesky Arab countries keep on starting wars with them…1948, 1967, and this current one.
December 27th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
all the world miss the big picture of the israeli – palestinian conflict. it’s not israel against hamas or israel against the palestinians. it’s 5 million jews, against more than billion moslems around the world. it’s israel against iran, syria, hizballah, hamas, and lots of other terrorist groups and hostile countries. nobody in the world knows, but even inside israel there are enemies of the jewish nation. 24% of the israeli population are not jews. most of them are paletinians that hate israel just like there brothers across the border. i believe that the hate for israel across the world is mostly a result of ignorance, and some as a result of anti-semitism.
December 27th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
SULEIMAN how can you say it? for your attention, Israel ALWAYS looking for peace, 1 good example is the start…when UN gave 2 countries, Israel got desert and some poor lands, while Palestines got A HUGE PIE from the land, Israeli people where happy, while palestines where so GREEDY so they Wanted all…they lost the war and now they crying…but who started? Israel? whith some guns and paper-Aircraft?
And what about now? while Israeli goverment Evacuated People from their Homes, to give that land to palestines, and how did they react? missiles? yea…nice one.
BtW, should i say that israel ALWAYS trying to hit Terrorists?(yes, from time to time bad thing happens…none can give it 100%, but at least Israel dont trying to atack Civilians purposly) and what about Palestinian people who support Hamas? they ALWAYS trying to atack civilians not army people, now why? what the hell Civilian poor man did to them? and its not the most horrible part, the most horrible that all their missiles are with litle balls to make MAX Damage to poor people…how can you call that?
1 thing i can tell for sure: Israel is happy with what she got, ISRAEL is THE ONLY REAL DEMOCRACY in Middle east, you can always talk to israel, and always Israel will find a way of solution without Fight.
but conditions of course need to be reasonable (hamas for example want to throw israel to sea).
of course Israel is wrong in some cases, but as i sayed “its democracy, sit, talk like real man, and solution will come”.
but when hamas saying “no atacks” and Israel gOt on head missles everyday, its hard to talk in that way…
I want to see 1 country in the world that can live around 9 years with boms on the head…Turkey in 1st boms entered with army for “clearance”…
still thinking “bullshit”? come to Israel, live some months, and then you will tell “what is right and what is wrong”.
December 27th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
to be honest im reading those comments ur all writing and im really shocked and speechless to how people can reach a level of arrogance that their forgetting the main point people are dying and half the crap ur saying right now wether its legal or illegal or ur on the israel side or palestine side or democracy their only words to descripe. their not something u can see on ur eyes or feel as seeing a person u cherish dies infront of u im not gona talk about past but im talking about the present theres no way u can justify what israel did to palestine civilians on whatsover so stop going around in words and accept the fact what they did is extremly wrong i dont care what hammas did or do but killing human biengs is just simply wrong wether ur a jew or christian or muslim or whatever religion u belive on theres not a single one of them that says killing innocent people is acceptable so seroiusly who are you to judge a person wether he needs to die or live im not gona start flaming on taking sides but im just saying stop sticking to one side. how about u check on what happened to the other side to.
Akamatsu u wrote ”1 thing i can tell for sure: Israel is happy with what she got, ISRAEL is THE ONLY REAL DEMOCRACY in Middle east, you can always talk to israel, and always Israel will find a way of solution without Fight.” i dont see they figured a solution to this one
clearly showing your on israel side and your thinking as long as im safe i dont care if a 1000people die then im gona ask u this what do u think the guy from the other side will say then if ur thinking on that mentality. and heres another one whats the poor palestine guy civilian whos drinking tea in his house with his family and suddenly they all die why does he deserve to die and you deserve to live who gave u the right to judge or goverments the right to judge (go around saying its legal) and killing people saying their casualities of war
December 27th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
@Suleiman 21,
it has to be deeply agreed to your second and third paragraph, but not to the first.
The country must have had come to existence, there can be no doubt about it.
Now, if you want, the question is the place, not the fact. We know by now, as we know history, the place is wrong, but – where would be the right place ? Of course, in the middle of Europe, where millions of people were gone during WW2. Or, of course, in the USA.
But they themselves wanted Palestine since before 1900, and the politics agreed over time.
Now they claim their praised land is their own since the time of Abraham or so, and that cannot be, simply because if, say, the Bulgarians would do so, they should get parts of Mongolia and Greece, or the native Americans would get back most of the USA (sending back the actual inhabitants to their respective historical homeland – what a disaster ;-o )
Every time when religion or ancient history, mostly mixed with non-rational argumentation, takes part where it shouldn’t, everything is messed up. Allah and Jahwe and God – which are all the same, only with different names, I understand – have great part in many bad things all over the world, mainly by misunderstanding and – sadly – misuse.
So, the main concept of a peaceful life for both groups there must eventually close out most of the thoughts, arguments and consequences of belief of the past. And also weapons.
And there must be a huge amount of attendance to forget and forgive.
I doubt it will be possible, for a chance of 5:95.
December 27th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Use of Words,
What do you suggest Israel do in the face of rocket attacks?
You say it’s just words were throwing around….your right but thats what the LAW is…words. Now you can say morally there can be no justification for bombing the Palestinians and that your right. However, must no be selective, so you don’t ever agree with military campaigns? You were against WW I and WW II? You were against NATO action in Bosnia? You apparently think that it is never right to raise a gun? If you are a pacifist that is your right. I don’t agree with pacifist though, i think that sometimes military action is necessary to save lives. NATO bombings saved tens of thousands of Muslim lives in Bosnia. WW II was waged to stop Nazi aggression. I think your wrong to believe that war is never the answer. Last resort yes but it is a resort none the less. Israel bombed HAMAS MILITANTS today. hundreds of militants died along with a far smaller number of civilians. Nobody wants civilians to die but sometimes it happens in war. Hamas needs to stop launching missiles at Israel and Israel won’t bomb Palestine.
December 27th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
and 1 more thing guys dont be selfish just thinking about yourself if ur palestine think about the israel civilian whos scared to enter the bus as said in comments and same thing if ur israelian then think about the other poor guy whos scared to even go out of his house afraid of bieng killed those are human lives were talking about please dont value them cause of his country all people are equal thats what the law always say unless u think ur above the law and human biengs then ur just another idiot who was raised bieng spoiled and i pray to god you pray the price one day so u know that human lives arent just a game
December 27th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Your statement about everyone being equal is noble however you then throw away your creditability by saying you “pray to god you pay..” i thought for an instant you were rational but instead i see your just as intolerant as everybody else. You rant against people being “spoiled” because they don’t think like you? Your full of hate yourself it seems
December 27th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
matt gray yes call me a pacifist whatever u want dont really mind since i been raised to know between from whats right and wrong and from what i see as u said ” far smaller number of civilians” how would u feel to be one day among those? will u just accept saying ah well im screwed since military option is the right thing i have to accept my fate and die just like that…. and btw HAMAS MILITANTS are considered human biengs they fall under that category
as for war as last resort im not much of a fan for that but yes im a guy who accepts reality
if its neccesary then yea but ONLY under this circumstance where civilians not involved i dont care if 10000 soldier from israel and 1000 soldier from palestine confront each other do a massacare blow their guts to pieces if they know beforehand that. this will be the result and
both Goverment leaders or whatever agree on it so dont judge that its okay to kill people
if a person wants to die his free to kill himself and if two people wana kill each other and their okay with it they can do it as long as it doesnt involve or drag innocent people who want to live a peacefull lives see their kids growup have vications watch movies….etc…
December 27th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
matt gray im not full of hate i do belive in god and i accept people beliving on what they want everybody is free on his actions as long as it doesnt involve other people and yes i pray to god because of my incabilty so yes i know my limits i cant fly i cant stop wars i cant bring world peace but what i can do is pray to god since i belive in a god whats wrong with that
and il say it now god knows i never ever had hate for anyone in my heart. since i dont have the right to judge people but it doesnt effect that i have my own opinions
December 27th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Use of Words,
I wish wars were fought like that, actually the best thing would be for the leaders to have to fight it out instead of a bunch of kids in uniforms but were are limited by reality…as sure as the sun will rise in the east there will be old men sending kids to fight in their wars and in those battles civilians will die. I don’t mean to excuse it but i feel that as a fact of life it must be stated.
As for the Militants being humans i didn’t say otherwise but they aren’t civilians that was what i was meaning to convey. As soldiers they were legal targets. I don’t celebrate their death but i don’t believe it to be immoral.
FYI, No war has ever been fought that didn’t include civilian casualties. I’m trying to be a realist i suggest you do the same or you are of no use. Unless you recognize the limitations we have you can’t influence the outcome.
As to your question, I wouldn’t be happy i was dying but i would accept it in that i understand i’m but a small player in a big world. I could die tomorrow in a random shooting or in a car crash…not the later would be excepted while the former would cause an outcry of gun laws or whatever but regardless i’m dead so whats it matter? It hurt to look at that Palestinian child on CNN’s home page but honestly i recognize that war results in the death of innocent people.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
God will deliver his divine justice to those who perpetrated these senseless killings…now how and whom he judges we can only speculate. I personally feel that the Hamas leaders who instigated this battle today should bare the brunt of the blame but i am not God so that is only my humble opinion. I respect your opinion in that i won’t say your wrong but i do think you are…if that makes sense…
December 27th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Matt gray what u just wrote shows that in this world theres still corruption thats what causing most wars and the primitive rule of the fittest survive or (strongest) since u stated im but a small player in a big world well in reality it could be true but why do u actually simply accept it
without seconds thoughts that why does the big players deserve to live or move the pieces
or their existence is more important since they got trophies in home of prizes they won
cause they know how to manipulate people in words or indivual talent so bottom line ur bringing the subject down to this the person who has more status and talent in his field (considered important rule as making the decisions) deserve to live more than a small player? even at the cost of his own mistakes wich brings us back to mid centuries on empires ages where royality is worth a million people lives
December 27th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
If only there would be leaders like him today. Someone who saw that peace with terrorists, didnt stand a chance against true Democracy and morality. And decided the only other alternative was fight for a cause – one that would ensure the safety of me and my people. Worldwide. From this blog its apparent, that the “Palistineans” arent the only ones who hate us.
Dear World by Rabbi Meir Kahane, z”tl, H”yd
(Written in the late 1980’s). For more articles by Rabbi Kahane, click here.
Dear World,
It appears that you are hard to please. I understand that you are upset over us here in Israel. Indeed, it appears that you are quite upset, even angry and outraged. Indeed, every few years you seem to become upset over us. Today, it is the brutal repression of the Palestinians; yesterday, it was Lebanon; before that it was the bombing of the nuclear reactor in Baghdad and the Yom Kippur War campaign. It appears that Jews who triumph, and who therefore, live, upset you most extraordinarily.
Of course, dear world, long before there was an Israel, we the Jewish people upset you. We upset a German people, who elected a Hitler and we upset an Austrian people, who cheered his entry into Vienna and we upset a whole slew of Slavic nations – Poles, Slovaks, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Russians, Hungarians, Romanians.
And we go back a long, long way in history of world upset. We upset the Cossacks of Chmielnicki, who massacred tens of thousands of us in 1648-49; we upset the Crusaders, who on their way to liberate the Holy Land, were so upset at Jews that they slaughtered untold numbers of us. We upset, for centuries, a Roman Catholic Church that did its best to define our relationship through Inquisitions. And we upset the arch-enemy of the church, Martin Luther, who in his call to burn the synagogues and the Jews within them, showed an admirable Christian ecumenical spirit.
It is because we became so upset over upsetting you, dear world, that we decided to leave you – in a manner of speaking – and establish a Jewish State. The reasoning was that living in close contact with you, as resident-strangers in the various countries that comprise you, we upset you, irritate you, and disturb you. What better notion, then, than to leave you and thus love you – and have you love us? And so we decided to come home, to the same homeland from which we were driven out 1,900 years earlier by a Roman world that, apparently, we also upset.
Alas, dear world, it appears that you are hard to please. Having left you and your Pogroms and Inquisitions and Crusades and Holocausts, having taken our leave of the general world to live alone in our own little state, we continue to upset you.
You are upset that we repress the Palestinians. You are deeply angered over the fact that we do not give up the lands of 1967, which are clearly the obstacle to peace in the Middle East. Moscow is upset and Washington is upset. The Arabs are upset and the gentle Egyptian moderates are upset.
Well, dear world, consider the reaction of a normal Jew from Israel. In 1920, 1921 and 1929, there were no territories of 1967 to impede peace between Jews and Arabs. Indeed, there was no Jewish State to upset anybody. Nevertheless, the same oppressed and repressed Palestinians slaughtered hundreds of Jews in Jerusalem, Jaffa, Safed and Hebron. Indeed, 67 Jews were slaughtered one day in Hebron in 1929.
Dear world, why did the Arabs – the Palestinians – massacre 67 Jews in one day in 1929? Could it have been their anger over Israeli aggression in 1967? And why were 510 Jewish men, women and children slaughtered in Arab riots in 1936-39? Was it because of Arab upset over 1967? And when you, World, proposed a U.N. Partition Plan in 1947 that would have created a Palestinian State alongside a tiny Israel and the Arabs cried and went to war and killed 6,000 Jews – was that upset stomach caused by the aggression of 1967? And, by the way, dear world, why did we not hear your cry of upset then?
The Palestinians who today kill Jews with explosives and firebombs and stones are part of the same people who – when they had all the territories they now demand be given them for their state – attempted to drive the Jewish State into the sea. The same twisted faces, the same hate, the same cry of “idbah-al-yahud” – “Slaughter the Jews!” that we hear and see today, were seen and heard then. The same people, the same dream – destroy Israel.
What they failed to do yesterday, they dream of today – but we should not “repress” them. Dear world, you stood by the Holocaust and you stood by in 1948 as seven states launched a war that the Arab League proudly compared to the Mongol massacres. You stood by in 1967 as Nasser, wildly cheered by wild mobs in every Arab capital in the world, vowed to drive the Jews into the sea. And you would stand by tomorrow if Israel were facing extinction.
And since we know that the Arabs-Palestinians daily dream of that extinction, we will do everything possible to remain alive in our own land. If that bothers you, dear world, well – think of how many times in the past you bothered us.
In any event, dear world, if you are bothered by us, here is one Jew in Israel who could not care less.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
“forgetting the main point people are dying ”
What’s wrong with terrorists dying? The world could use more of this, and the Israelis are doing what they can.
I’m not knocking you, Use of Words; I think you’re okay. But I wonder if “Use of Words, Periods and Commas” woudln’t be a better name…
December 27th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
blogger @ the blog of record i didint really even think about the name since as i said from what i saw on news and readed in the internet was much more important than a silly name
as for ”What’s wrong with terrorists dying? The world could use more of this, and the Israelis are doing what they can”
ah sure man its not a proplem that u suddenly wake up in morning and find the goverment tagging u with terrorist while u havent done anything and what makes u sure than all 100% that died are terrorist for me in my opinion i never ever liked what terrorists do since it’s against my beliefs but then again how are u sure that they were terrorists if u werent even there it just shows that ur another guy who opens the news and read or listen one thing on one of the channels that is on one of the either sides then believes it that its 100% true without second thoughts and i dont wana even descripe the people who actually does that
December 27th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Words,
Were all small players, the wealthiest and most powerful of us is just as mortal as the weakest. While one can have more possessions than others they can’t get around the simplest of rules…we are all the same. In that light, a few dead Jews or a hundred dead Palestinians doesn’t make much of a difference. The respective populations are both tired of war but the respective leaders seem to have an endless thirst. Palestinians launch crude and largely harmless rockets at Israel, Israel says stop or else, Palestinians say or else what and launch more useless rockets, Israel attacks with jet plans, precision bombs, and helicopter attacks….I have two things to say about this endless series.
1. The cycle will not end until both sides realize their leaders are doing them no good
2. The Palestinians are stupid…you don’t win a war by dying for your country you win a war by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his-George S. Patton
December 27th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Matt, i couldnt agree more with you at that ”1. The cycle will not end until both sides realize their leaders are doing them no good”
and with ”The respective populations are both tired of war but the respective leaders seem to have an endless thirst. Palestinians launch crude and largely harmless rockets at Israel, Israel says stop or else, Palestinians say or else what and launch more useless rockets, Israel attacks with jet plans, precision bombs, and helicopter attacks….I have two things to say about this endless series” now those 2 points countries should start solving instead of picking a side and blaming the other
December 27th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Ah yes that would be grand but were to begin… Palestinians don’t trust Israeli’s and Israeli’s don’t trust Palestinians. Israel won’t open the border b/c you and i both know that a few militants will take the opportunity to strike Israel. Palestinians militants won’t give up ‘the resistance’ because for many thats all they know.
Sadly the best chance for peace ended when Sharon had his stroke. He finally realized that Israel could have peace with Palestine if things were done right but now i don’t see any political leader that has the strength to move the extremist away from the front…that goes for both sides. Maybe the next political generation will have the men, but you know each side will have to step up to the plate.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
@matt grey,
that is exactly what I wrote about the situation in Israel. But we have had this scenario so often – the Hamas shoots some rockets, Israel strikes back – these are vicious circles.
At first we must see what we have: Israel has power. Has money. Has the big Brother USA. Has western rationalism. Has weaponry, which no country of this size would be able to possess, not even the rich Switzerland
(Have you ever asked yourself how the country can survive whit this amount of military and arsenals of weapons – and further – how this country can define itself as independent and viable without hypocrisy ?).
On the other side, the Palestinians have nearly nothing. They have only Hezbollah. I say now the Hezbollah is definitively not wise. The little money they have is spent for – I fear to say, I say I don’t know. They are apparently not tending to be peaceful and constructive-minded. They do only a few things to run a minimum of infrastructure. They are led by hate and they use it. So far, so bad.
At this time only Israel has the resources and the possibilities to begin a real constructive process of peace. The Palestinians do not have, because they are not anymore in the position, which lies also in Israel’s responsibility. They can only survive by being the victims. And for sure they are the victims, you can call them terrorists a thousand times. They are simply down. (Their leaders could try to say “Now, it is enough with that all, we stop every assault against Israel, because we live in a junk, lets go and give Israel the opportunity to make their part”, but they don’t, so I dare to criticize them.)
And this situation lasts several decades. There was a period, when an Israeli politician (Barak ?), who was later shot by an Israeli, was the leader, I had the impression that the things would grow better.
So it is my deepest opinion that it lies, at first only, in Israel’s hands, later, together.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Words,
Of course I don’t believe all I read in the news, but I’m sure you also don’t believe that the Israelis just bomb everyone and everything indiscriminately. The news reports call the dead Hamas people “security men”, and we all know what this means in media-speak.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
”Ah yes that would be grand but were to begin… Palestinians don’t trust Israeli’s and Israeli’s don’t trust Palestinians. Israel won’t open the border b/c you and i both know that a few militants will take the opportunity to strike Israel. Palestinians militants won’t give up ‘the resistance’ because for many thats all they know.
Sadly the best chance for peace ended when Sharon had his stroke. He finally realized that Israel could have peace with Palestine if things were done right but now i don’t see any political leader that has the strength to move the extremist away from the front…that goes for both sides. Maybe the next political generation will have the men, but you know each side will have to step up to the plate.”
this is true defintly agree with you on that but your still forgetting the Foreign countries arent really much of a help on the situation except for one thing they did write is a cease fire between both sides rest of the stuff they do are just throwing talk… wasting time…and taking sides wich is really not considered Democracy for some countries that claim it.
this should be end of this discussion since matt u said what others couldn’t and even answered best solution for all this. thats it for me enough said we did say and expressed whats best to do in these situations in our opinion , rest is for the other people to understand it wether they want or not is up to them.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
”What’s wrong with terrorists dying? The world could use more of this, and the Israelis are doing what they can.
I’m not knocking you, Use of Words; I think you’re okay. But I wonder if “Use of Words, Periods and Commas” woudln’t be a better name…”
I have seen the news and read the papers and a lot of people weren’t terrorists! Children, women and elderly ev died! This bloodshed must stop. And we all must condemn it, about both sides.
Or can’t we see the difference between a muslim and a terrorist anymore, because of our hate now?
December 27th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Suleiman21,
I wrote ”What’s wrong with terrorists dying?”, not ”What’s wrong with children, women and the elderly dying?” The innocent will stop dying when the terrorists stop firing their rockets while hiding behind their backs.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
@blogger,
please don’t feel insulted, but I call this comment naive.
Regardless what this term means in media-speak, this is not a computer game. Rockets do not make any difference between civilians and terrorists. They simply can’t. And I don’t believe, the “security men” will stand together by hundreds to be targeted easily by the Israeli weapon systems…
Anyway, the attack, how “effective” it ever was, how many terrorists are hit, IT WILL NOT MAKE ANYTHING BETTER. Period.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Knossos,
Israel has such a large defense budget b/c they have been threatened from the moment they came into existence. Jews are by far the most persecuted race in history so i’ll forgive them for being so obsessed with arms. As an American i live in a country that accounts for half of all defense spending worldwide…Think about that…our Defense Dept. spent 650 Billion dollars last year and thats not counting war expenses. But we do a lot of good with our military, assisting natural disaster victims worldwide for instance-something nobody else has the capabilities to do. The US aircraft carrier cost 5 billion dollars to make and then 7 million dollars a day to operate and we have 7 of them but they saved thousands of lives in the Tsunami rescue. Hezbolla is not the answer, in fact, Hezbolla will drag Lebanon into another war with Israel shortly when neither the Lebanon government or people want it!! Israel has the resource to ease the Palestinians plight but Israel cannot alone bring peace. Peace will happen when reason rules. Hamas doesn’t believe in reason and neither does Netanywho (sp).
December 27th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Knossos,
Your right in that the missiles Israel fires don’t know the difference between civilians and militants but that really doesn’t matter. The men killed today were mostly militants. Gaza’s own hospital spokesmen said so himself but killing a couple hundred militants isn’t going to stop Hamas. Fatah is corrupt and Hamas is run by warmongers so the Palestinians have no hope. I don’t relish the deaths today, even when i consider the militants to be ‘bad guys’ b/c the cycle is going to continue. I don’t however mourn for them either…i mourn for the innocent children that were wounded and killed and i mourn for the Israeli towns that are hit with dozens of rockets each day. Civilians are caught in the crossfire, that is what ‘use of words’ and i completely agree on. I also don’t think things will change anytime soon.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
It is brutal act of Israel. I condemn these strikes. This brutal act, greedy policy or evil thought of Israel should be suppressed.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Okbaaba,
You’d be better respected if you were to be less one sided and say that both sides should be condemned but if you truly only believe that Israel is to blame here than your as guilty as they are.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Read comment 31!
December 27th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Knossos,
The missiles don’t care whom they hit, but it seems that the Israelis put a lot of effort into planning and target-picking before the strike. This guy http://www.israellycool.com/2008/12/27/israel-strikes-back/ is live-blogging the sad events and links to this account of the preparations http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050426.html. They had all the terrorist bases mapped and were able to take good aim. Hamas people were taken by surprise and had no time to hide among civilians. That’s why we aren’t reading about big civilian losses, to Hamas’s great disappointment I’m sure.
I appreciate the generally civilized tone of disagreement in this thread, which is great, considering the topic.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Solution: Let arrogant Israel and it’s allies meet the cowardly cockroach extremists and their allies out in the open desert away from civilians. There they can meet face to face as in a historical battle, no hiding behind civilians. Then battle it out till the end.
December 27th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
@A Proud Jew
Dear proud Jew, we are not upset. We are …disappointed, if not disgusted. It is exactly your proudness, the proudness of a tiger who gains victory over a cat. Every victory you mention in your endless litany is won with impayable American technology, or would you say that you won against Lebanon with some outdated russian rocket launchers ? And could you claim without hypocrisy that Israel could survive alone and could buy regularly all those weapons and have so many people in arms and run concurrent a functioning economy ?
Now you made me a little indignant, not only with your needless proudness, but with your whining about how poor and suppressed the Jews where in the past 400 years.
That is exactly the same it ever goes. At first we hit some hundreds of people, because they gave us a kick. Then, we celebrate our glorious victory. An when there are others who may say, that this is not civilized, this is not right, then we are aggrieved and point to our tragic history.
Bravo, you have learned your lesson.
The litany you have donated to us is the main impetus for the rotation of the vicious cycle I mentioned above.
The Palestinians have an analogous litany. Both yours and theirs have the only use to distract the others (and yourself and themselves) from the one and only truth:
What your comrades have done, WILL NOT MAKE ANYTHING BETTER. Period.
December 27th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Knossos,
The U.S. didn’t supply Israel with weapons until recently…in 1948 they were armed with museum pieces for the most part. Their artillary were 19th century relics and some WW I leftovers. A couple British tanks but nothing substantial. Today Israel has the keys to the U.S. armory but in ‘48 they won with shear determination. 1967 was a war led by the much larger Egyptian army. If i were a Jew i would be very proud of what they were able to do. Nobody expected Israel to survive those first two wars. The U.S. was going to directly help Israel in ‘67 but Russia said if we entered then they would enter so Israel was again left on their own with only limited supply help from the US. The Palestinians greatest foe is their neighboring Arab countries who have taken advantage of them for a far longer time than Israel has existed. By the way, Israel supplies the United States Military with some hightech gear. Those unmaned flying aircraft we use so much now were created by Israel.
December 27th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
@Matt Gray
I dont believe in killing and war as a beautiful, and proud thing. I thank you for being straight forward. And thank you for stating that, much better than I could have myself.
December 27th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
DEATH TOLL UPDATE : 4,000 to 5,000 palestinian dead vs couple hundreds israelis dead.
You are all have gone completely insane to say that palestinian is the threat. we`ve got a long term ethnic cleansing going on in palestine. how come you say that palestine, hamas or whatever.. are the terrorists. they throw mortars because isrealis goverment are taking their lands and homes. thats what you do when you got invaders ruin up your whole live, you fight !!! . wake up people, this is not about islam vs jews, this is about a bloody massacre supported by the USA admin !!!!
December 27th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Eri,
Where on Earth did you find those numbers! Especially the Jewish ones…seriously, if anyone here needs to wake up, its you my friend.
December 27th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Eri yoga sidharta,
The death toll only points out how dumb the Palestinian leaders are….
Seeing how Israel only attacks after being provoked those 5,000 Palestinian deaths are Fatah’s and Hamas’s fault. If it weren’t for the instigators on the Palestinians side do you think Israel would be able to mount such attacks on the Palestinians?
Hamas is a threat to Israel, in fact i think Hamas has killed more Arabs than Israeli’s so Hamas is a threat to everybody. Just the other day they killed 2 Palestinian children! You say they just throw mortars…well did you know that although inaccurate mortars can kill. This isn’t about Islam vs Jews this is about violent terrorist (Hamas) that likes to kill civilians-both Arab and Civilians.
The death count ratio means absolutely nothing. Hamas would kill more Israeli’s if they weren’t so incompetent.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:01 am
This is the deal: there is no occupation in Gaza. Israel left Gaza for the Palestinians in 1994 and in 2006 finally had ALL the settlements in the Gaza area vacated. Gaza is under total Palestinian control, and when the Palestinians are not fighting Israel they fight each other.
Hamas declared the cease fire over about a week ago, not to mention that during the cease fire rockets were fired at Israel on a daily basis. Last week after Hamas declared that it will not honor the cease fire it has fired HUNDREDS of rockets at Israeli town targeting ONLY civilians.
No county in the world would sit quietly and let its people be targeted by rockets. Israel did what any other country would have done and that only after calling on Hamas to stop for a whole week.
The problem is that the Arabs mistake the desire for quiet and peace with weakness.
People are calling the Israeli response out of proportion, according the that logic Israel should send hundreds of rockets into populated areas in Gaza targeting ONLY civilians, that is what Hamas is doing.
Good day!
December 28th, 2008 at 12:21 am
@Steve
Extremely well said!
December 28th, 2008 at 12:23 am
@ matt grey
unfortunately I cannot agree. I have read that they first got guns for a complete Infantry Division delivered by Russian Airplanes from Czechoslovakia in March 1948, after then deliveries from all over the world, especially with the ship “Nora” in May 1948. On May 14th, 1948, they had 54 Airplanes in the Shin Aleph Air Force. What I’ve read is, that troops and material from all over the world were swiftly delivered to Israel, so that they had more Soldiers and more and better weaponry than their enemies. The Arabian Troops were mostly bad organized, the only serious opponent was the Arabic Legion, led by the Britains. But this Legion was bound by a Deal between King Abdallah and Golda Meir, so there were no fight with the Israelis.
In 1967 the Egyptian Army was a complete Bunch of Mess, because they were involved in the civil war in Yemen before. They had not even valid maps.
Israel began this war destroying Egypt’s 385 Airplanes without declaring war. Also they destroyed most of Jordanian and Syrian Airplanes. So they won the war almost on the first day, because they had alone more than 200 Airplanes. Great tactics, admirably !
An interesting detail is that they attacked an US Navy scout (”Liberty”) ship and killed 34 sailors and hurt 172. Up today nobody knows really why.
What I have to admit about the 1967 war is that it is obvious that they had to strike first to have any chance to win, even with the desolate state of the armies of their enemies. The political signs were so clearly that everyone would have given the order for first strike.
But at these days, they stood towards three states, and not a horde Palestinians.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Steve summed it up nicely.
“Disproportional Israeli responce.” A proportional responce would be like Steve wrote – launching hundreds of rockets at civilian targets. That’s what Hamas would love to see – more collateral damage in Gaza. In the Lebanon war in 2006, Hezbollah used innocent people as a human shield, and when they were killed, Israel got blamed and had to quit. Hamas wants a repeat of this.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:38 am
What is all the fuss about suddenly ? I am neither muslim nor jew. A well known bunch of terrorists with well known murderous tendencies and practices gets payback and everyone is abuzz. One must also not forget that if given that the socalled Hamas government is legitimate according to all Arabs, then those who elected terrorists should be treated as such irrespective of what others think. These so called civilian population is not really civilian or civilised, otherwise they would not have elected their terrorist masters. Simple as that.
Between you and me, that whole area should be razed and cleaned up. Israel waited too long actually after having suffered thousands of rockets in the backyard.
December 28th, 2008 at 12:45 am
@Steve,
any other country in the western world (to which Israel counts itself) would have resolved this conflict long ago. Even England was able to make peace with Ireland (or vice versa), a conflict that lasted several hundred years.
And I cannot see any desire for peace and quiet from The Proud Jews, especially when I look at the things they have done in the last several years.
Maybe there should be not so much proudness around, but a little more wisdom, doesn’t anyone want to try ?
December 28th, 2008 at 1:01 am
Knossos,
Israel fielded more troops in total b/c they drafted every able body. The actual trained soldiers numbered only a few thousand. The CIA estimated that Israel would be able to hold out for 2 days. Egyptian troops were numbered some 40,000 but yes only 10,000 were well trained. As for the Arab air force, they had far more plane than the Israeli’s luckily the Arabs mistakenly attacked a British airfield and the British then downed many Arab planes in response.
The ‘67 war was totally different, yes Israel struck first but thats b/c the Arab armies formed a block aid which by international law is an act of war. Further, the Egyptians air force wasn’t totally destroyed b/c they ran air raids on Israeli cities threw out the war
December 28th, 2008 at 1:06 am
@justrightly,
You’re the man. Stand still and prepare for the holy war In The Name of God. Take the sacred missiles and fire them directly with a prayer on your lips towards the Palestinians. Use also the holy flame throwers to extinguish them from the face of earth. Don’t let any unworthy lifeform survive near our Chosen People, so that they cannot be battered with dangerous objects any more. And while you are fulfilling this holy act of cleaning, praise the Lord with delivering your most Uranium kerneled rounds to the enemies children !
December 28th, 2008 at 1:07 am
Knossos,
Why is it Israel that most resolve the problem? Why don’t the Arab countries have any responsibility? The Palestinians don’t have to do anything?
Why don’t you like Israel?
You said England made peace with Ireland…really b/c last i check Nothern Ireland is still a mess.
Also This conflict has only been going on between Israel and Palestine for 60 years but Arab/Jew conflict is thousands of years old
December 28th, 2008 at 1:10 am
Uranium depleted rounds are nasty your right but they are also the only thing that penetrates thick armor. The US, British, and Russians use them too. So would the Arab armies if they could afford them.
December 28th, 2008 at 1:42 am
i wasnt raised in a conflict zone, i wouldnt know anything about the horrific conditions both the people of Israel and Palestinians face every day, rocket attacks, bombings, killings all of these things create a cycle of violence and i dont see an end to it. the sad part is that the children of palestinians and israelis are the one who are going to inherit this way of thinking, and reading through what people have said you still cannot justify the use of violence
both sides are responsible for escalating attacks, funny thing is that israel and palestine along with the other arab countries and western countries started playing the blame game, who started it first, is to, or not… all of you are not kids, blaming each other for starting it… i mean grow up!
i maybe a idealistic, but come on, both countries should make concessions its not a matter who made the biggest but the main thing is to have peace for their children and that means not forgetting that they are and we are all human beings with equal fundamental rights, and if they or the other people that justified what happen or urged people to retaliate, then i dont see an end to all the fighting and killing, whether your jew, moslem, christian, protestant, black, white, asian, american, arab, chinese, israeli, palestinian, who cares in the end your still a human being!
December 28th, 2008 at 3:41 am
USE OF WORDS:
dude, 9 years Israel tried to go on compromise, whithout any army, Israel kicked out Israeli people from their homes, to give that teritory to Palestines…but all what Israel people see in return is Missiles all the day.
in news you probably see: “Israel got Cease-fire with hamas”
but dont think that it helps…ok if before there were 6~15 missiles, so in this case 2~6…i want to see you live 9 years with bombs on your head…
i lived 2 months when Lebanon secund war was…and im telling from expierience that its Realy Annoying!
all the people that saying: Israel only go to “Army way” im tellin: “The hell? give me one man that can stand 9 years with bombs!”
so after israel tried all out, this is the only option that left.
Israel Government will do anything to protect its people, and when dialog Fails, there are no more options.
9 years its more that enough to suffer, and im full support Israeli operation.
Its self defence to defend poor people when dialog fails…if you where 1 of those who live everyday in “Sderot”, i want to see you saying: “no no! i know its hard but lets continue to try and talk…we still will get everyday missles, but lets talk”.
and 1 more thing: yo sayed “Palestinian who drink a tea doesnt deserve to die” you are right 100%, no one deserves death…but…
people who live on israeli side for 9 years taking missiles deserve to die?
while Israel Army do nothing because the Government want to talk?
i dont think so…i realy don’t think that someone that even dont want to agree for your existance can realy talk…
December 28th, 2008 at 5:29 am
ARAB & MUSLIM EXTREMISM WORLDWIDE TO BLAME
BOMBAY. 9/11. NEED I GO ON?
ISRAEL won the wars which were a result of repeated ARAB Agression at great cost to itself.
ISRAEL constantly compromised & was the only side to give precious land back.
The Arabs shot thousands of missiles at Israeli civilians during the past years.
When Israel finally responds – Arab cries of `massacre` are heard.
For a change, Lets see Arabs elect a democratic government that will give land To Israel & strive for peace
December 28th, 2008 at 8:04 am
@ matt gray
As I said before, Israel has to make the highest efforts, because they a) have the most power, granted by the USA, b) have the highest needs for their future, even if they are not willing to realize that, and c) are the Chosen People by definition of their selves, and it can’t be without any responsibility being such a better human amongst the others, being the best is also a burden, if you are willing to make the term a believable truth, not only an empty sentence for self-praising.
I must also say that I don’t hate Israel. But I always hate hypocrisy, arrogance and wrong proudness. I hate senseless doings, in a matter of development into the future. Man tends to use better extinction machinery than better ideas, this should come slowly to an end.
For Northern Ireland you have to admit, that there is no more dying there, at least.
@Akamatsu
I cannot see those nine years without army. I can see the decampment of Gaza under Sharon which was an unbelievable improvement, put in practice by a hardliner. But it was definitively not enough. Human rights Organisations like Betselem are gaining honour for Israel with some actions like giving cameras to Palestinians for witnessing abuses, but are merely small highlights in a sea of sadness.
December 28th, 2008 at 9:07 am
I have found an interesting comment about the actual incident at http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/kommentar212.html, which should hopefully conclude my participation with this discussion. It is in German, so I will give a short abstract, because I think the Germans are extremely careful, if not fearful with Israelian affairs because of their horrible common history. Please be tolerant, because I’m not a very good translator.
Clemens Verenkotte writes:
The experiences from the past show, that even massive campaigns like the actual will not hold back the Hamas or Jihad from starting new attacks against Israel shortly after with their rockets. The current campaign will also not extract the “roots of terror”. It will also be military and political of more use more to the Palestinians, and deepen the anger, impotence and exhaustion of their people, so that the Hamas will further be able to use these feelings for their purposes.
The cease of fire, decided in June, was first broken by the Israeli military, who killed some Hamas – militiamen during the US presidential election night at the beginning of November. After this, the Hamas in return decided to start launching their rockets again, and Israel blocked every traffic to and from Gaza, even UN aid supplies and Diplomacy, except for some rare occasions, which found their way to the media.
The new raised Palestinian activities against Israel led then by return to the actual incident.
The isolation and ignorance policy against the Palestinians (supported by the western world), as a reaction against the Palestinian leadership election of Hamas three years ago, is not successful and things will go more worse, while nearly everybody in Israel welcomes the current campaign, even the moderate groups, claiming to protect the citizens, which was never really possible. The current offensive also has to be seen in common with the current Israeli elections time.
Verenkotte describes the Israeli Gaza policy as failed, perpetuated with the principle of vengeance.
December 28th, 2008 at 10:02 am
hamas been targeting civilian population in the towns of shderot (on the israeli side) using homemade rockets and later standard GRAD rockets for eight years .
long after Israel has withdrawn from the gaza strip completely and even during the bombardments ontinued to suply gaza with electricity , feul and humanitary support .
the porpuse of the ongoing operation of the IDF in gaza strip is to stop the hamas bombardment.
December 28th, 2008 at 10:05 am
to
knossos
you arguments are very novel.
I guess that no one shoots rockets on your house daily for 8 years.
I dont try to provocate just to show the facts.
December 28th, 2008 at 11:06 am
People people, let’s not take the side of anyone in the conflict, but the side of humanity. No one in this conflict is right anymore because both have taken so much lives from each other, destroyed and barely listened to the international community.
We all know that it’s time for a change in politics and the way we look at this conflict. Now I’m just suggesting everyone to say how they think the problem could be solved in the long term. And keep the extreme things for yourselves, no one wants to hear about that.
December 28th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
@suleiman21
Too bad, that there are many people out there who think that the thought of humanity has nothing to do with the Palestinians. Too bad, that there on the opposite side are also many people who think in the same manner about the Israeli. I for myself tried in the last hours to bring some thoughts of humanity (with much cynics, I admit) to a Jewish dominated forum. How successful do you think I was ? The most evidences of intelligence are locked out there.
There is for the moment one chance. That the current assault in its monstrous size of destruction of human life by a so-called chosen and western country will initiate a powerful alliance against further escalation of violence. But I have only a small hope.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
@alexander
I understand what you mean, but in my case it wouldn’t be my house since the first shot, because I wouldn’t have dared to put such a risk on my children or on my wife, because they are too worthful for me. We wouldn’t simply be not there anymore, if I would have the slightest chance to arrange it. And if my beloved would be hurt because I am stubborn and proud, I would never forgive me.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Knossos,
You aren’t suggesting that Israeli men living in southern Israel don’t care about their wives and children as much as you do, are you?
Again, thanks to you and everyone else for keeping the discussion civil.
December 28th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
First of all, before saying anything – I would like to say that I’ll try to keep this post/reply as objective as I can, for both sides.
I’m Israeli, not right-winged nor left-winged. I’m speaking for myself and for what, to my best understanding, my Israeli government is trying to achieve.
Knossos, and all the rest – It looks like the rest of the world looks to both sides as ones who only seek to blame the other for the current situation, which has been going far too long to remember.
I believe this is untrue.
The main deal in Israel nowadays is not to blame this or that, but to find a common, acceptable solution for both sides. In order to find a solution for this common problem you need to sit down and discuss the problem with the other side.
Unfortunately, this again deteriorates to blaming – The current situation is that the other side (Hamas) refuses to sit with you. Not just that, it also refuse to recognize you as an existing, real being. This is the source for the current problem.
On the other side, in the western bank, negotiation has been going along slowly and carefully with the Fatah government. I’m not saying that it’s going well or that some sort of agreement will be reached anytime soon – But at least there are talks and meetings going on. A portion of Fatah prisoners are released every couple of months from Israeli prisons. The Fatah are starting to arrest law-breakers and Hamas militants in order to achieve order. Both sides are still cautious towards each other due to distrust, but it starting to go somewhere. Yes, there are voices here in Israel saying that the Fatah will use this only to gain strength and some day strike back. West bank Palestinians think that we are not giving enough. But it is going somewhere.
Knossos, I’m sorry – but I have to clarify what you said and explain it in more detail.
It might not sound acceptable to you, but the people in Shderot and in the nearby bombarded areas continue to live there not because they value their wives and children lives less than you. Definitely not. They are there because either they don’t have the economical means to relocate (some more able have relocated, by the way), and mainly because it will encourage Hamas to continue its abuse on Israeli civilian population. This will only encourage more violence from the other side. This is the main restrain for Israel to give up land.
I know it might seem illogical. But yes, this is the current situation. Me, us, Israel doesn’t have a partner to talk to on the other side. Hamas and other extreme Islamic organizations see diplomatic attempts as a weakness, which only encourages them to use more violence. Unaccepting Israel is explicitly written on their ideologic platforms, by the way.
Now, I refuse to stop here, because I have only blamed the other side. I will tell you what I think should be done, as best as I can. I also believe that this is what my government is trying to achieve.
The solution should begin with removing the current control of the extremist organization in Gaza. Currently this is Hamas. The problem is, there is currently no other capable organization to fill the new vacuum. Fatah doesn’t enjoy support in Gaza, because they are considered corrupt and not sometimes not religious enough. The rest of the groups in Gaza are even more extremist that Hamas are. So, what I said above won’t solve the problem.
From here, there are two choices.
One, Israeli re-occupation of Gaza, installing a military control over the area. This is absolutely unacceptable and will lead to nowhere. All Israelis know that. We have no need to hold this land, except in order to defend ourselves and maintain a cease-fire with the current Gaza regime.
The other, more reasonable solution is make the Gazan-Palestinian population to understand that they need a moderate, less-religious regime to lead them to a good solution, and most importantly – **Accept Israel as real being**.
This process is very long and will take a very long time to achieve. How will this be achieved? This is the main problem, which I don’t have a very good answer to.
Palestinian education on the subject of Jews and Israel is mainly based on hatred towards Israel. This has to be changed. I believe this can only be done with international intervention, since the Palestinians won’t really listen to Israelis on this subject. This is not the situation in Israeli schools, by the way.
Second, I think some sort of international force should maintain law, order, and peace in Gaza. Currently no country agrees to take a step forward. I’m sorry – but that’s a problem beyond my strength to solve.
The only thing I have left to say is that it will take a very long time for both sides to become more moderate towards each other.
That is all I have to say for now.
It is 1:26 AM now, need to go to sleep for another day of fighting.
Good night.
December 28th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
To #4 Frank And To Everyone Else
=======================
First of all ,The Fact That Hamas was Elected By Democracy – is Gaza’s Problem
Hamas Is Not a Party -It is Well Known (and Declared) In The World, in Erupoe, And in The United Nation as a Terrorist Group – Just Like EL KAIDA.
if the People of Gaza Were Smart Enough They Wont Allow This Organization To
Control Them.
The Targets of This Operation Are Hamas and Everyone Who Support Hamas. The Ones That Becomes Policeman of Hamas Could Choose Being Something Else.. That Movement is Much More Than ‘Making Money’ Or ‘Try to Make a Living’ Its All About IDIALOGY .
and Their Idialogy is The Same as EL Kaida.
Most of Them Were Long Time Terrorist Members In The Hamas Before They Even Elected On Gaza. Hamas Headqurters Gave Them That Policeman Jobs After They Becomes Elected.
Don’t Be Ridicilus , Killing Inoccent People is The Last Thing That We Israel Need.
Not Because We Love Them, Its Because We Know , That it Will Make a Public Opinion Against Us, And Wont Allow Us To Finish Our Primer Goal : Make Israelis Citys Next To Gaza Safe From Rocket Misseling By Hamas
Each Target Was Carefully Chosen To Not Harm The Ones That Were Not Involved in Terror And Israely Airforce Sucseeded In 98% of That.
December 28th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
@ Ory
Thank you very much for giving this comment. It was a rare gift to me, and the others too.
Nothing more has need to be added. Thanks again.
December 28th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war, IDF. Even from my perch in far away America, I’m sick to death of hearing about the rockets, dozens of rockets, or even HUNDREDS of rockets fired by Hamas scum at Israel every day. It’s actually a little difficult to imagine how angry I’d be if it were happening to me. But I’m pretty sure I’d want to level the entire country that was attacking me, civilians be damned.
I’m glad Israel is not doing that, though. I hope and pray that Israel continues this attack until Hamas formally surrenders, admits that Israel has the right to exist, and agrees to never attack Israel again.
I’m hoping and praying for a pipe-dream, aren’t I :).
Kevin’s last blog post..Arabs Condemn Israel
December 29th, 2008 at 3:35 am
I posted this on Israelicool, but it drew little comment. This is my current worldview and doubtless, others see this situation very differently. Nevertheless, from my perspective Israel had no choice but to do this.
To all of those knee-jerk accusers screaming “War-crime!” and “Crime against humanity!” – you are in good company, after all, the prime-minister of Turkey echoed exactly these sentiments.
But look again. Look at who has been targeted by Israel’s fighters and how few actual civilians have been killed, in comparison to the total reported fatalities. Israel, as repeatedly stated by all involved from Prime Minister Olmert down, is not fighting the people of Gaza. Israel is targeting Hamas, a terror organization that achieved control in Gaza through a military putsch last year and has since suppressed and imprisoned all opposition. Hamas, since taking control of the Gaza strip, has targeted unarmed innocents in Sderot, Netivot and the surrounding farmlands with indiscriminate mortar and rocket fire.
I have been hoping and praying for peace ever since I came home to Israel more than a quarter of a century ago. When my son was born 22 years ago, I prayed that he would never need to serve in the army. I prayed that there would be no need for an army, that we would have peaceful relations with our neighbours, that we would live side by side, in harmony.
I no longer have these illusions, though it took many years for my clouded vision to clear. Now, I am willing to settle for security. I don’t want peace – I just want to live quietly, without fear. I care about other human beings on the other side of the border, but I care about them a lot less than I care about my own loved ones, my family, my country. I am no different in this than any other normal person in any country in the world.
I used to have no opinion whatsoever regarding the political leadership of the inhabitants of the Gaza strip, since all my concern for their welfare vanished when we dismantled our settlements and removed all Israeli presence from the strip three years ago. The strip has another border with Egypt, the country that governed the Gaza strip until 1967. Once we moved out, the inhabitants of the strip should then have negotiated for cheapest fuel, water and electricity from their neighbours, and sold their produce to the highest bidders. A perfect situation for the nascent Palestinian state – if this is what they wanted.
Now it is clear to the whole world. The Palestinians do not want their own state. They do not want to live in peace with their neighbours. They do not want welfare, healthcare, open trade, to develop and grow into happy and useful members of the international community. Instead, their best and brightest waste their ingenuity in the design, smuggling and launching of ballistic weaponry. Their elected officials suppress all internal opposition, ignore welfare and instead brainwash gullible armies to terrorize the civilians of the Jewish state.
What is there to discuss? We have to do this to restore security to our citizens. If the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip will not let the inhabitants of Sderot, Netivot and all of the towns, villages, farms and factories go to work and go to bed without fear of mortar rounds and rockets, how can they complain when we attack their stockpiles, their bunkers, their training grounds?
This is why the response of the world has been so muted, even though the Jewish state is not universally loved. There is simply nothing to discuss here, the situation and Israel’s response is clear as daylight. Anyone saying anything different is not thinking clearly.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
@Kevin #80
My congratulations go to your frank and honest assessment of the situation.
Get this drift:
Some decades ago a (then) murderous army of Japs not only invaded its neighbours but lobbed rockets (zeros) in the US backyard of Pearl Harbour.
Guess what happened, Everything was fixed in about 200 seconds in both Nagasaki and Hiroshima with about a bit less than quarter million went grass.
in Gaza its still not the same and everybody is complaining.
Are they really serious ?
December 31st, 2008 at 8:40 am
@justrightly #82
Now you dindn’t do a good job for the Israeli, talking about Hiroshima and Nagasaki in one breath with their current actions in Gaza. It’s kind of a demasking. The extinction of 10thousands of civilists in both Japanese towns is meanwhile worldwide accepted as (somewhere founded) mass murder, whilst the general purpose was not only to end war and save good soldiers, but to show how powerful they were. It is always good to be like god, if not in creation, then in destroying !
December 31st, 2008 at 10:19 pm
83 knossos #
Better get real or migrate to the Gaza border and you will the feel what is “mass murder”
First, while cooking dinner for the family and getting a missile lobbed in the pan any day and for everyday is sure NOT target shooting that ends up.
Second any overwhelming reaction (detriment to the enemies of humanity) by good and peace aiming societies has NOTHING to do with mass murder or otherwise. If your thesis was adopted in the 40s you would not be around today to dispute it. This applies to those who concur with you. Too easy. Someone did the “dirty” job for their sake.
Want some hints of mass murder ?
: Japanese and their wicked perpetrations on other Asians and the Pacific
Stalin and recolonization of the USSR
Turkey and the Armenian so called dilemma
Not to mention Hitler and his achievements.
Mao and the 20 million Chinese “removed”. He could clinch the gold medal actually.
Pol Pot and re-de-populating of the territory
Sadam Hussein fixing the northern problem
General Franco and his personal Inquisition
I could mention more and more and most took even less than Kassam rockets years.
NONE has been a few seconds FIGHTBACK, for the good of humanity.
The good side must always prevail and by any means, otherwise why bother thinking of tomorrow or for that matter prepare the pan again to fix the next dinner.
Vermins must not prevail.
Unless….. one has a deal in Gaza.
Really Futile.
Even the devil would avoid a trip there.
No Fate.
March 10th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
@justrightly
It seems you have a little strange idea about at what bodycount mass murder begins.
6 Million ? 60000 ? 600 ? 6 ?
Some killers claim to be mass murders, as they feel powerful and fearable.
Would you call Sabra/Chatilla mass murder ? No ? Only ~2000 people dead. But a massacre, yes.
And the current (Dec/Jan…) Ghaza attack ? No mass murder, only ~2000 people dead. But a massacre, yes.
So, do you honestly claim that massacre is better than mass murder ?
Now, I wish for YOU being in this Ghaza strip for years, suppressed and enclosed with other 1,5 Millions of yours, at a place where about 8000 lived before. I wish YOU being dependent on someone other’s low leveled mercy. I wish YOU breathing every evening the dust and sweat of your neighbours coming from their shitty huts. You know you have no future. Who would YOU hate ?